Meeting 9 - 10 March 2000

Meeting Minutes 9 - 10th March 2000

Meeting 1 at Manilla (9/3/00)

Agenda: to elect a Novice Representative to the H.G.F.A. Competitions Committee

Present: Ian Ladyman, Mark Plenderleith, Mark Taylor, Craig Martinson, Brian Webb, Christy Kemp, Karl Texler, Andy Abbott, Godfrey Wenness, Bob Smith, Stewart Dennis, Mike Dufty, Ivan Amnissimov

Proxies (via Christy Kemp): Fred Gungl, Malin Gungl, Andy Kemp

Nominees: Stewart Dennis, Mike Dufty, Bob Smith, Andy Abbott, Ivan Amnissimov

Discussion: Resolved that all the above nominees (plus Adam Niemkemper and preferably someone from South Australia as well), function as a sub-committee, this subcommittee to be co-ordinated by the duly elected Novice Representative.

Election: Stewart Dennis elected by a clear majority (11 votes cast in his favour)

Close: Another meeting tabled for 10/3/00

Meeting 2 at Manilla (10/3/00)

Agenda Items: 9 in total, itemised with their respective discussions for clarity, these to be presented today for feedback only (i.e. unofficial meeting only)

Present: Ian Ladyman, Stewart Dennis, Fred Gungl, Enda Murphy, Mark Plenderleith, Mike Dufty, Peter Wennersen, Ivan Amnissimov, Heinz Bobner, Geoff Guest, Christy Kemp, Phil Hystek, Rhett Rockman, Godfrey Wenness, Mike Pearson, Mark Taylor, Patrick Roser, Barb Utech, Fran Ning, Sue Smith

Note: Indents denote responses to points raised

This meeting is an unofficial meeting to hear pilots views.

Item 1: Team Selection Criteria weightings - Published prior to season, and to Include Current seasons ladder.

Discussion:
- Determine and publish team selection criteria weightings that will be used to select the team early, say at the April comp committee meeting ready for next season.
- Include current season ladder into team selection? (Ian L.)
reason: A new pilot not present last season may not earn a place on the team selection ladder due to it using 2 years results. The current single season ladder should be included into the criteria for right to challenge and selection criteria.
- Wildcard place in team? (Enda M.)
- Need valid measurement method (Ian)
- Total discretion via selector (Enda)
There was not much support for wildcards, due to difficulty in justifying the selection method.
- Taped response regarding potential team member selectee from his/her peers (selectee not to have access to tape) Agreed that a team selection committee should not be restricted by feeling that the candidates may listen to the tape of the selection committee meeting.
- Criteria weighting to be established at end of previous season to allow pilots to plan if they should get overseas experience or other requirements etc. (Godfrey)
- Top 20 in team selection ladder + top 20 in current national ladder to be considered. (currently 10)

Item 2: Uncertified gliders - World Championships/Aussie Comps

Discussion:
- If CIVL allows uncertified gliders, we can't change it this time, but we can apply pressure at any future meetings to encourage certified gliders for the future (Ian)
- There was overall support for this
- For Aussie Comps, having got a decision from CIVL, we have to follow it to remain competitive (Rhett)
- Overall support for this

Item 3: Serial Class

Discussion:
- Can't deal with it until CEN defined (Karl)
- Need to separate the idea that pilot skills should prevent pilots flying in a glider class (Ian) This is not a change from the current rules, but is a change to how
some pilots view glider classes. As compared to pilot grades (A, B or C).

Item 4: Standard Class

Discussion:
-Should not be confused as being for novice pilots. quote from DHV: classification 2 description = "Paragliders with demanding flying characteristics and
potentially dynamic reactions to turbulence and pilot errors. Recommended for regularly flying pilots." and " On the other hand class 2 gliders, who were formerly used in
training, due to their higher speed potential today require an actively flying and well reacting pilot. Experienced pilots of course like their handling
characteristics and their high rate of active safety, which is combined with a level of performance equalling that of high performance competition wings a couple of
years ago." http://www.dhv.de/deutsch/testberichte/test_e.html
- This class could attract the majority of relatively experienced pilots who are not concerned with making the team, but fly with more safety for pleasure(Ian).
-Nothing to change or adapt until CEN defined.

Item 5: Team Event

Discussion:
- keep it unofficial
- possible changes regarding team member ratings
- No changes proposed. (Perhaps Godfrey might like to contribute ideas if required)

Item 6: Next season's comps

Discussion:
- "Big three" AA comps (Bright, Corryong, Manilla), Manilla 1st week in March.
- No Sanction for NZ comps unless it is not contributing to champion or team selection because it is last in season and could require sudden travel to maintain a position on
the ladder. One method of achieving this is to only allow B grade pilots or below to earn points from NZ.
- No B Grade comps? or don't allow A grade pilots to use points from any comps other than the 3 major comps.
- make team selection straight after "big three", i.e. only these will count toward team selection
- Novices not well represented under present system (Stewart)
- A grade points??
- B Grade points??
(new entry pilots questionnaire to determine what new pilots want from comps, as ladder position for these pilots only shows participation rather than skill anyway.
This will be done by Stewart Dennis and his subcommittee)

Item 7: Goal GPS Beer Can

Discussion:
- possible to cheat if landing just short
- all pilots should have to fly as far or further than the first pilot into goal

Item 8: Turnpoint outside 400m OK?

Discussion
- 400m radius cylinder must be "busted" (i.e. flown through) (general agreement)

Item 9: Novice Class separate in comps

Discussion
- Novice pilots may be excluded from big comps
- Need to define novice
- separate tasks/same tasks?
- don't mix with AA's?
- 'Novice' may not be the correct name, but pilots of low skill level who would find it dangerous to fly on strong days may be within a group that could be told "No points
for you today, don't fly" to allow the day to continue in 'advanced' site conditions. Thus allowing marginal days to continue for experienced pilots.

Karl Texler

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